[Oskee] Juice benched

Wed Oct 7 11:08:16 EDT 2009

That's funny, Chad.    A friend and I just this weekend equated being an
illini fb fan with being a Cub fan.  Rare moments of hope and triumph,
interspersed with decades of despair!  Let's go you Redbirds!  

From: oskee-bounces at heins.net [mailto:oskee-bounces at heins.net] On Behalf
Of Chad Kahl
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:37 AM
To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched

I have chosen to detach myself emotionally from the football team.  I
record the game on the DVR and check on the results before hitting play.
No more allowing a poor performance to ruin the rest of my
day/weekend/week...

I hate being a fair weather fan, but I can't take it anymore.  I reserve
my blind allegiance for the Illini mens basketball team and the St.
Louis Cardinals.

Chad

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Arbuckle, Jeanne <jarbuck at ilstu.edu>
wrote:

I appreciate the conversation here, as well. If you put it in my
mailbox, I will take time to read it, but I don't have time to go
looking for it! 

I, too, am starting to question Zook's ability as a head coach. I wanted
it to work out because on paper, he recruits great players. Better than
we've ever had before. But now I'm starting to question whether they
really are better than we've ever had. Maybe we are getting them because
they have flaws we don't realize at the time.

From: oskee-bounces at heins.net [mailto:oskee-bounces at heins.net] On Behalf
Of Robert Mingee
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 1:08 PM
To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched

Man, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm really beginning to wonder if in
fact that's not the real problem (that Zook has no idea what he's
doing).  As all Illini fans are painfully aware after the Turner era,
some coaches - no matter how nice they are or how good they are at
strategy or how hard they work - are simply not head coaching material.
Because of their ability in a particular area, they end up getting
promoted beyond their level of competence (the Peter Principle?).  I
just don't get a sense of confidence when I hear Ron speak.  I feel like
he's just trying things scattershot to see what might work rather than
having a plan.  If the players see that as well, I can't imagine it does
much to inspire confidence in them either.  He's clearly a tireless
worker, and seems to know a lot about defense.  But that doesn't make
him a great leader.

All that said, Todd has made some excellent points about Juice.  Every
game I've watched has been on Tivo, scanning through huddles and
commercials, just trying to watch in whatever time I have, which usually
leads to me being less than observant, so I've missed a lot of that.
Also as much as I hate it, I'm no longer emotionally invested in this
team.  I watch all the games I can get on TV, which is most all of them
thanks to the Big Ten Network, and probably always will, but I don't
find myself cheering the good plays and bemoaning the bad plays like I
do when I watch the Bears.  I just don't even care enough to analyze
what they're doing anymore.  I've become resigned to the fact that if
we're playing a better team, we will lose, and if we're playing a worse
team, we've got a decent but not certain chance to win, and it just
takes all the fun out of it for me.

But yeah, it's great to have some discussion going on here again -- keep
it coming!  I just don't have time to follow high-volume online forums,
so this is my place for talking over the Illini, aside from the very
occasional trip out to join the local Illini club watching a game.

-- robert

________________________________

From: John Livengood <jdlive at yahoo.com>
To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List <oskee at heins.net>
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 10:00:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched

Like I said, why not make the change earlier in that case? Maybe Coach
Zook doesn't have any idea what he's doing and is simply grasping at
straws. Certainly he's got to realize he needs to get things turned
around soon or he's going to be feeling the heat with only 1 winning
season at Illinois in 5 years.

Also, I don't think Juice is the reason we rank dead last in the Big Ten
in rush defense, 10th in pass defense, last in total defense and last in
scoring defense.

________________________________

From: Michael Korst <illinir1 at comcast.net>
To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List <oskee at heins.net>
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 10:48:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched

Perhaps Coach Zook watched the game film and saw the terrible
performance that we all saw live.  In fact, maybe he watched Juice's
game film from his last 5 games.....all losses.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Livengood" <jdlive at yahoo.com>
To: "Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List" <oskee at heins.net>
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 9:30:02 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched

Right, but supposedly Zook left Juice in against PSU so he could "play
through it", i.e. find his game on the field. So he does that, even
though some of it's in garbage time, and NOW you bench him? Doesn't make
any sense to me. If you're going to make that change, should have been
done long ago. ________________________________ From: Todd Sweet Sent:
Monday, October 5, 2009 9:52:26 PM Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched
Well, that's true, he did have a few good passes downfield (which I
agree is one of his strengths). But without putting points on the board,
those yards are almost as meaningless as the 2 TDs were at the end of
the game. Which brings me to another issue this team clearly has...and
this has nothing to do with Juice. But the stupid penalties are driving
me nuts. And to me, that gets back to the coaching issues. TS ON a
sidenote...it's nice to see some chatter on the list again!!!!
________________________________ From:oskee-bounces at heins.net
<mailto:From%3Aoskee-bounces at heins.net>
[mailto:oskee-bounces at heins.net] On Behalf Of John Livengood Sent:
Monday, October 05, 2009 8:39 PM To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts
List Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched Actually, more than half of
Juice's yardage came in the first half, and much of that in the 2nd
quarter when they actually had him throwing the ball down field! I agree
his TDs were meaningless, but disagree that he didn't play well. When he
was given opportunities to utilize his abilities, he did well.
________________________________ From:Todd Sweet To: Fighting Illini
Sports Enthusiasts List Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 9:13:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched I agree with you, JL, that Eddie
(like Juice) shows flashes of greatness, and then makes stupid
turnovers. I'm not sure he's the answer either. What I disagree with is
you comment that Juice had a somewhat good game. Many of his throws were
behind the receivers. And most of his production came in the 4th
quarter. If McGee had come and scored 2 tds late in that game, everyone
would have discounted them saying he got them during trash time. That's
when Juice got his as well. PSU playing soft to run out the clock and
probably with 2nd and 3rd stringers. I do agree that Juice has had to
deal with the toughest part of the schedule. Maybe it isn't fair to pull
him now. But he doesn't look like someone ready to confidently lead this
offense at this time, so maybe this will shake things up. All I know is
I've watched way too many football debacles since Macovic left town.
It's embarrassing that a school with some very rich football history
can't at least muster up a mid level bowl game every couple of years.
And let's not forget who is responsible for putting this brutal schedule
together this season. Cincy may turn out to be the best team we play all
year. TS ________________________________ From:oskee-bounces at heins.net
<mailto:From%3Aoskee-bounces at heins.net>
[mailto:oskee-bounces at heins.net] On Behalf Of John Livengood Sent:
Monday, October 05, 2009 7:59 PM To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts
List Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched Also meant to add, I think the
real problem has been not using Juice's strengths, which are running the
option and throwing more down field. I realize teams are taking away the
long passes by sitting back in deep zones, but the option's been working
yet we don't run it much. Run that until they stop it, then see if the
safeties might be vulnerable to some passes. But to keep trying to make
Juice into a ball control, short passing QB wasn't going to work out.
________________________________ From:Robert Mingee To: oskee at heins.net
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 5:31:10 PM Subject: [Oskee] Juice benched
I'm sure you've all seen the story by now that Juice has been benched
(though curiously it is not reported on fightingillini.com). Opinions?
Personally, I don't see how you can possibly pin the losses on him
entirely, but as the team leader, he's ultimately responsible, and I
can't really blame Zook for wanting to shake things up. As with last
year, consistency continues to be his biggest problem -- he's either
really on or really off. I was really shocked to read how bad his stats
are, though -- it didn't seem that bad from watching. >From a purely
pragmatic perspective, this season is over before it even really started
-- I don't see any way for this team to make a bowl. Yes, they have
faced tough competition, but it's not really going to get much easier,
and I just don't see any spark on this team. It's like they're going
through the motions. There just doesn't seem to be any hope of them
beating a team that's better than they are, because they are so lacking
in intangibles. The defense can be exciting at times, but it's so
inexperienced. And the offense continues to be so much less than the sum
of its parts, for whatever reason. So I guess there's really nothing
much to lose, except further demoralizing Juice, which really is
regrettable. He seems like a decent kid, and he's done some amazing work
in his career, but he's just not getting it done. If there's any hope
for next year, it's getting Eddie some solid experience in this offense.
Sigh. When does basketball season start again? -- robert 
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