[Oskee] Juice benched

Tue Oct 6 14:15:12 EDT 2009

Hey, does anyone here know where there will be a game watch in St. Louis
this weekend?

Todd

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From: oskee-bounces at heins.net [mailto:oskee-bounces at heins.net] On Behalf Of
Robert Mingee
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 1:08 PM
To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched

Man, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm really beginning to wonder if in
fact that's not the real problem (that Zook has no idea what he's doing).
As all Illini fans are painfully aware after the Turner era, some coaches -
no matter how nice they are or how good they are at strategy or how hard
they work - are simply not head coaching material.  Because of their ability
in a particular area, they end up getting promoted beyond their level of
competence (the Peter Principle?).  I just don't get a sense of confidence
when I hear Ron speak.  I feel like he's just trying things scattershot to
see what might work rather than having a plan.  If the players see that as
well, I can't imagine it does much to inspire confidence in them either.
He's clearly a tireless worker, and seems to know a lot about defense.  But
that doesn't make him a great leader.

All that said, Todd has made some excellent points about Juice.  Every game
I've watched has been on Tivo, scanning through huddles and commercials,
just trying to watch in whatever time I have, which usually leads to me
being less than observant, so I've missed a lot of that.  Also as much as I
hate it, I'm no longer emotionally invested in this team.  I watch all the
games I can get on TV, which is most all of them thanks to the Big Ten
Network, and probably always will, but I don't find myself cheering the good
plays and bemoaning the bad plays like I do when I watch the Bears.  I just
don't even care enough to analyze what they're doing anymore.  I've become
resigned to the fact that if we're playing a better team, we will lose, and
if we're playing a worse team, we've got a decent but not certain chance to
win, and it just takes all the fun out of it for me.

But yeah, it's great to have some discussion going on here again -- keep it
coming!  I just don't have time to follow high-volume online forums, so this
is my place for talking over the Illini, aside from the very occasional trip
out to join the local Illini club watching a game.

-- robert

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From: John Livengood <jdlive at yahoo.com>
To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List <oskee at heins.net>
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 10:00:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched

Like I said, why not make the change earlier in that case? Maybe Coach Zook
doesn't have any idea what he's doing and is simply grasping at straws.
Certainly he's got to realize he needs to get things turned around soon or
he's going to be feeling the heat with only 1 winning season at Illinois in
5 years.

Also, I don't think Juice is the reason we rank dead last in the Big Ten in
rush defense, 10th in pass defense, last in total defense and last in
scoring defense.

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From: Michael Korst <illinir1 at comcast.net>
To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List <oskee at heins.net>
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 10:48:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched

Perhaps Coach Zook watched the game film and saw the terrible performance
that we all saw live.  In fact, maybe he watched Juice's game film from his
last 5 games.....all losses.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Livengood" <jdlive at yahoo.com>
To: "Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List" <oskee at heins.net>
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 9:30:02 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched

Right, but supposedly Zook left Juice in against PSU so he could "play
through it", i.e. find his game on the field. So he does that, even though
some of it's in garbage time, and NOW you bench him? Doesn't make any sense
to me. If you're going to make that change, should have been done long ago.
________________________________ From: Todd Sweet Sent: Monday, October 5,
2009 9:52:26 PM Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched Well, that's true, he did
have a few good passes downfield (which I agree is one of his strengths).
But without putting points on the board, those yards are almost as
meaningless as the 2 TDs were at the end of the game. Which brings me to
another issue this team clearly has.and this has nothing to do with Juice.
But the stupid penalties are driving me nuts. And to me, that gets back to
the coaching issues. TS ON a sidenote.it's nice to see some chatter on the
list again!!!! ________________________________ From:oskee-bounces at heins.net
[mailto:oskee-bounces at heins.net] On Behalf Of John Livengood Sent: Monday,
October 05, 2009 8:39 PM To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched Actually, more than half of Juice's
yardage came in the first half, and much of that in the 2nd quarter when
they actually had him throwing the ball down field! I agree his TDs were
meaningless, but disagree that he didn't play well. When he was given
opportunities to utilize his abilities, he did well.
________________________________ From:Todd Sweet To: Fighting Illini Sports
Enthusiasts List Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 9:13:19 PM Subject: Re:
[Oskee] Juice benched I agree with you, JL, that Eddie (like Juice) shows
flashes of greatness, and then makes stupid turnovers. I'm not sure he's the
answer either. What I disagree with is you comment that Juice had a somewhat
good game. Many of his throws were behind the receivers. And most of his
production came in the 4th quarter. If McGee had come and scored 2 tds late
in that game, everyone would have discounted them saying he got them during
trash time. That's when Juice got his as well. PSU playing soft to run out
the clock and probably with 2nd and 3rd stringers. I do agree that Juice has
had to deal with the toughest part of the schedule. Maybe it isn't fair to
pull him now. But he doesn't look like someone ready to confidently lead
this offense at this time, so maybe this will shake things up. All I know is
I've watched way too many football debacles since Macovic left town. It's
embarrassing that a school with some very rich football history can't at
least muster up a mid level bowl game every couple of years. And let's not
forget who is responsible for putting this brutal schedule together this
season. Cincy may turn out to be the best team we play all year. TS
________________________________ From:oskee-bounces at heins.net
[mailto:oskee-bounces at heins.net] On Behalf Of John Livengood Sent: Monday,
October 05, 2009 7:59 PM To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Juice benched Also meant to add, I think the real
problem has been not using Juice's strengths, which are running the option
and throwing more down field. I realize teams are taking away the long
passes by sitting back in deep zones, but the option's been working yet we
don't run it much. Run that until they stop it, then see if the safeties
might be vulnerable to some passes. But to keep trying to make Juice into a
ball control, short passing QB wasn't going to work out.
________________________________ From:Robert Mingee To: oskee at heins.net
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 5:31:10 PM Subject: [Oskee] Juice benched I'm
sure you've all seen the story by now that Juice has been benched (though
curiously it is not reported on fightingillini.com). Opinions? Personally, I
don't see how you can possibly pin the losses on him entirely, but as the
team leader, he's ultimately responsible, and I can't really blame Zook for
wanting to shake things up. As with last year, consistency continues to be
his biggest problem -- he's either really on or really off. I was really
shocked to read how bad his stats are, though -- it didn't seem that bad
from watching. >From a purely pragmatic perspective, this season is over
before it even really started -- I don't see any way for this team to make a
bowl. Yes, they have faced tough competition, but it's not really going to
get much easier, and I just don't see any spark on this team. It's like
they're going through the motions. There just doesn't seem to be any hope of
them beating a team that's better than they are, because they are so lacking
in intangibles. The defense can be exciting at times, but it's so
inexperienced. And the offense continues to be so much less than the sum of
its parts, for whatever reason. So I guess there's really nothing much to
lose, except further demoralizing Juice, which really is regrettable. He
seems like a decent kid, and he's done some amazing work in his career, but
he's just not getting it done. If there's any hope for next year, it's
getting Eddie some solid experience in this offense. Sigh. When does
basketball season start again? -- robert 
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