[Oskee] Ouch - Is Weber another Turner?

Wed Jul 18 20:02:09 EDT 2007

I always put more weight on what happens on the court; partly because I 
don't follow the recruiting all that much. I know how successful you can be 
with good recruits, but I also know you can get a skinny guy from Matteson 
(read: Kendall Gill) who makes all the difference in a team.  Yes, you do 
need a whole team full of those guys to win the National Championship, but 
you don't get to square one without x's and o's.

My problem with Turner was that he took a 5-8 team and went 0-11 in his 
first year.A few years later he won the big ten. Then he was back in the 
dumpster. Was it bad coaching, followed by good recruiting, followed by bad 
coaching?  If so, then Weber must be his exact opposite; and for the record, 
I'll take good coaching first.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Livengood" <jdlive at yahoo.com>
To: "Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List" <oskee at heins.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Oskee] Ouch - Is Weber another Turner?

> Shumpert is gone. I think we have  decent shot at Suggs, but the longer he 
> waits, the less confident I will be.
>
> I agree it's too early to write Weber off, but I felt this is a key season 
> for him, both on the court and with recruiting. I thought he made a nice 
> recovery from the Gordon fiasco, and a good class this time around would 
> be a great step forward. So far, it's not looking good for that to happen 
> at this point. It does seem odd to me that he seems to have better success 
> outside of the state as opposed to in state (and Chicago in particular).
>
> On the court, he's basically got a team of his own recruits now (Randle is 
> the last Self recruit). Last year was a disaster with injuries and other 
> assorted troubles off the court, a strong season this year would really be 
> a boost for the program. The biggest problem I see is that we are still 
> going to struggle to score, especially if Jamar is not back on the team. 
> So it seems likely that we have a repeat of last season - the team will 
> hopefully be healthier but less experiences and it looks like the schedule 
> is more difficult so it may be a wash. While you never know who may step 
> up or suprise you, right now it's hard to believe the results will be a 
> whole lot better than last year.
>
> I think Weber's at a crossroads and has time to get back on track, but 
> figuring out how to fix the recruiting is going to be key.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Anthony L Hooker <hooker at cs.uiuc.edu>
> To: Fighting Illini Sports Enthusiasts List <oskee at heins.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:34:57 PM
> Subject: RE: [Oskee] Ouch - Is Weber another Turner?
>
>
> So, you're basically saying that because one kid changed his mind, we
> should throw Weber under the bus?  If IDKWTI had stayed true to his
> commitment, we wouldn't be having this discussion, period.  Shumpert
> hasn't committed.  Suggs hasn't committed. Miller hasn't committed.
> They may all go elsewhere, but they haven't YET.  He won 23 games last
> year with half his team in the infirmary and you want wholesale change
> because he's missed on some high profile recruits?
>
> They didn't offer Humphrey last year because his play didn't warrant an
> offer, and he felt slighted.  I say too bad for him.
>
> In closing, I think we should at least see McCamey, Watkins, Alexander,
> et al. play collegiately before deciding that he's not getting the job
> done on the recruiting front.  I think we're going to be pleasantly
> surprised by how good they are.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oskee-bounces at heins.net [mailto:oskee-bounces at heins.net] On Behalf
> Of Chad Kahl
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:27 AM
> To: oskee at heins.net
> Subject: [Oskee] Ouch - Is Weber another Turner?
>
> I want to post this thought here, rather than throw more bait into the
> pack
> of hyenas on Orange and Blue...
>
> I keep hearing that the class of 2009 and 2010 are going to be great,
> but
> isn't that what we've been hearing as Weber misses top target after top
> target?
>
> Between the style of play we saw last season where it got to the point I
> had
> to make myself watch the games and the inability to land top recruits
> (Jereme Richmond is a long ways off), I'm really starting to worry.
>
> I know Weber's Xs and Os are top notch, but something has to change when
> it
> comes to recruiting.  We have to start landing the top ten/twenty type
> of
> player.
>
> My fear when Weber started was that we were going to become another
> Purdue.
> I envied their success year in and year out, but they rarely did
> anything in
> the tourney, because they rarely had the top, top shelf talent.
>
> Weber needs to change his staff and figure out what he's doing wrong,
> because the list is growing, with Dunigan and Schumpert (Humphrey is
> good,
> but not great) added to Gordon, Collins, Wright, Rose...  While a number
> of
> them may have taken a deal during recruitment, the guys we just lost out
> on
> where the type of young men and stable families that were supposed to
> end
> Weber's dry spell.  I also heard that Weber needed time to establish
> himself, because we did not have the track records of Duke, North
> Carolina,
> etc.  However, the recent guys had Weber on their trail from the start
> and
> they recognized the Illini staff for that.
>
> Before everyone starts mentioning all the recent recruits at me, just
> remember that most of them are in the 75-150 range.  That's great, but
> you
> need the occasional great player and Weber has failed miserably at
> recruiting them to Illini.
>
> I'm really at a loss.  You can't possibly fire someone with his track
> record
> on the court, but he also will have difficulty sustaining Illinois'
> program
> if he can't land the elite players (before the 2010 class).
>
> Chad, AKA UofIx3
>
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